A Quiet Reflection on QROH

The conference, Friends in Conversation: A Quiet Revolution of Hope was held in Petaling Jaya on 3-4 March, 2007. The main speaker is Brian McLaren. Aside from the conference, Brian also gave a lecture at STM on 5 March 2007.

Jamie Sim reported the event in Christian Today online magazine here

Alwyn Lau’s reflections are here,here,and here. I am sure Alwyn has much more to say. David Tan comments on his blog. Another comment is found in Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam. It is encouraging to note the conversation is still going on and people are engaging with the experience.


I have prepared myself for this conference by reading all 10 of Brian’s books (which he has autographed), and also whatever I can find on the internet. I engage in conversations with people involved with the emerging church movement. My objective is to learn as much about the emerging church movement as possible. I thank my brothers in the JB Pastor Fellowship for their concern; especially those warned me and sent me emails and reading materials about the dangers of the emerging church. Fortunately, this conference allowed me to have a lot of time of interactions and quiet conversations with Brian McLaren.


Here are a few of my observations:

1. Brian is a gentle soft spoken man. I believe that he is a committed Christian seeking to follow and serve Jesus as we all are doing. I do not believe that he is a charlatan with his own selfish agenda.

2. I do not think Brian is “a threat to the gospel” as reported in a report. However, his interpretation of the inclusiveness and exclusiveness of the gospel is slightly wider than what most evangelicals would allow. However, we need to understand where he is coming from in his definition of gospel. Brian is an excellent communicator and as he tells his stories and illustrations, that we can be so caught up with enjoying the way he tells them that we missed what he is telling us, and more importantly, what he is not saying. It is good that he tells of the two versions of the gospel. One is the gospel of self which can be roughly translated as “I am saved so to hell with the rest of the world.” The other version is the kingdom of God. Brian has not mentioned that there are other versions of the gospel. He also needs to clarify whether he means that the kingdom of God is the gospel. He is not too clear in his talks on that. And he also needs to clarify what he means when he uses the word, “kingdom of God.”

3. Brian's emphasis is on contextualization of the gospel rather than attempting to create a systematic theological definition. As a friend of mine points out, this is akin to Lamin Sanneh’s concept of “translatability.” The gospel is both universal (truth) and particular (culture). Other scholar who may have shaped Brian’s thinking is Lesslie Newbigin (who is a guy in spite of his name) and David Bosch. Brian is in fact being a missionary to the North American church. However, it is relevant to us in Malaysia and Singapore or other part of Asia to examine this “translatability” of the gospel especially in a pluralistic, materialistic, and multicultural context. It is important that we examine the universal and the particular.

4. Brian was a pastor and his approach is mainly pastoral in nature. One needs to understand his approach from this direction. While giving us three illustrations about the emerging church, Brian did not give us much information about the emerging church or on what exactly is an emergent church. He then talks about deep ecclesiology in such a vague way that we are free to interpret the term to mean whatever we want to. It would have been helpful for Brian explain his diagram in respect to “liquid”, “ghost”, and why the vertical arrow is bidirectional. What makes this ecclesiology “deep”? There is a danger that we are so engrossed by high sounding words that we fail to understand what it means.

5. I have problem with his theological construct on which he builds his emerging churches. The emerging churches are strong in practice but weak in theology. This is a weakness that Brian has to address if his theology of model making is to be accepted by the church. Another friend of mine comments that Brian “artificially contrasts between the ‘bad’ timeless propositional model which is a caricature and then puts it beside his model which is vaguely described. The assumption is that his theology has all the qualities which the earlier models lack.” While it is obvious that Brian is influenced by W.T. Wright, we need to, in comparison look at the ecclesiological theology of Barth, Erickson, Luther, and Calvin. His theology is very much influenced by sociology, psychology, politics, pragmatism, secular individualism than by biblical propositions. However I do not think that he is “New Age”, of which he is accused to be associated with by another friend of mine. Still at this moment his theology construct is still weak.

6. Though he claims to be post-modern, he is very ‘modern’ in the way he thinks. I do not see how one can think of God, the Trinity and the gospel without being propositional. In his last talk in the conference about the world, he gives his analysis of the problems of the world. His reasoning reminds me of the theories of Karl Marx and Nietszche. His answer, as in all his other three presentations is simplistic without much offering in the sense of how do we translate his concepts to action.

7. His definition of theology as “an ongoing creative enterprise of making models of the universe based on beliefs about God” was presented at the STM lecture. I was disappointed that the many STM theologians present did not engage in this definition. It sounds too universalistic and scary for many evangelicals. I would like to know what limitations does he place on his model making and what hermeneutic role does the Bible plays in his theology.

8. He is concerned about the weaknesses of the institutional church, and I share his concern that we are losing a large number of our younger people from the church. Would the model of emerging church be an answer?

9. Brian is articulate, intelligent, and well meaning. I have enjoyed his company. I believe we should listen to what he has to say. The least we can do is to offer him Christian hospitality which means that we listen to one another. However, we must critically reflect on what he says. We need to examine his propositions in the light of the Word of God. Finally, we need to come to our own conclusions, not depending on the conclusions of others.

This is not a criticism of Brian and should not be taken as such. These are some of my reflections and of a few other pastors and theologians I have spoken to. There are still a lot of questions and even more answers are needed. I value Brian as a friend. Hey, we had Yee Sang on Chap Goh May. I believe that he has an important message for us here in Asia. At the very least, I can tell my grandchildren (when I have them) that I once shared the stage with Brian McLaren.


Blessings

A Quiet Reflection on QROH

The conference, Friends in Conversation: A Quiet Revolution of Hope was held in Petaling Jaya on 3-4 March, 2007. The main speaker is Brian McLaren. Aside from the conference, Brian also gave a lecture at STM on 5 March 2007.

Jamie Sim reported the event in Christian Today online magazine here

Alwyn Lau’s reflections are here,here,and here. I am sure Alwyn has much more to say. David Tan comments on his blog. Another comment is found in Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam. It is encouraging to note the conversation is still going on and people are engaging with the experience.


I have prepared myself for this conference by reading all 10 of Brian’s books (which he has autographed), and also whatever I can find on the internet. I engage in conversations with people involved with the emerging church movement. My objective is to learn as much about the emerging church movement as possible. I thank my brothers in the JB Pastor Fellowship for their concern; especially those warned me and sent me emails and reading materials about the dangers of the emerging church. Fortunately, this conference allowed me to have a lot of time of interactions and quiet conversations with Brian McLaren.


Here are a few of my observations:

1. Brian is a gentle soft spoken man. I believe that he is a committed Christian seeking to follow and serve Jesus as we all are doing. I do not believe that he is a charlatan with his own selfish agenda.

2. I do not think Brian is “a threat to the gospel” as reported in a report. However, his interpretation of the inclusiveness and exclusiveness of the gospel is slightly wider than what most evangelicals would allow. However, we need to understand where he is coming from in his definition of gospel. Brian is an excellent communicator and as he tells his stories and illustrations, that we can be so caught up with enjoying the way he tells them that we missed what he is telling us, and more importantly, what he is not saying. It is good that he tells of the two versions of the gospel. One is the gospel of self which can be roughly translated as “I am saved so to hell with the rest of the world.” The other version is the kingdom of God. Brian has not mentioned that there are other versions of the gospel. He also needs to clarify whether he means that the kingdom of God is the gospel. He is not too clear in his talks on that. And he also needs to clarify what he means when he uses the word, “kingdom of God.”

3. Brian's emphasis is on contextualization of the gospel rather than attempting to create a systematic theological definition. As a friend of mine points out, this is akin to Lamin Sanneh’s concept of “translatability.” The gospel is both universal (truth) and particular (culture). Other scholar who may have shaped Brian’s thinking is Lesslie Newbigin (who is a guy in spite of his name) and David Bosch. Brian is in fact being a missionary to the North American church. However, it is relevant to us in Malaysia and Singapore or other part of Asia to examine this “translatability” of the gospel especially in a pluralistic, materialistic, and multicultural context. It is important that we examine the universal and the particular.

4. Brian was a pastor and his approach is mainly pastoral in nature. One needs to understand his approach from this direction. While giving us three illustrations about the emerging church, Brian did not give us much information about the emerging church or on what exactly is an emergent church. He then talks about deep ecclesiology in such a vague way that we are free to interpret the term to mean whatever we want to. It would have been helpful for Brian explain his diagram in respect to “liquid”, “ghost”, and why the vertical arrow is bidirectional. What makes this ecclesiology “deep”? There is a danger that we are so engrossed by high sounding words that we fail to understand what it means.

5. I have problem with his theological construct on which he builds his emerging churches. The emerging churches are strong in practice but weak in theology. This is a weakness that Brian has to address if his theology of model making is to be accepted by the church. Another friend of mine comments that Brian “artificially contrasts between the ‘bad’ timeless propositional model which is a caricature and then puts it beside his model which is vaguely described. The assumption is that his theology has all the qualities which the earlier models lack.” While it is obvious that Brian is influenced by W.T. Wright, we need to, in comparison look at the ecclesiological theology of Barth, Erickson, Luther, and Calvin. His theology is very much influenced by sociology, psychology, politics, pragmatism, secular individualism than by biblical propositions. However I do not think that he is “New Age”, of which he is accused to be associated with by another friend of mine. Still at this moment his theology construct is still weak.

6. Though he claims to be post-modern, he is very ‘modern’ in the way he thinks. I do not see how one can think of God, the Trinity and the gospel without being propositional. In his last talk in the conference about the world, he gives his analysis of the problems of the world. His reasoning reminds me of the theories of Karl Marx and Nietszche. His answer, as in all his other three presentations is simplistic without much offering in the sense of how do we translate his concepts to action.

7. His definition of theology as “an ongoing creative enterprise of making models of the universe based on beliefs about God” was presented at the STM lecture. I was disappointed that the many STM theologians present did not engage in this definition. It sounds too universalistic and scary for many evangelicals. I would like to know what limitations does he place on his model making and what hermeneutic role does the Bible plays in his theology.

8. He is concerned about the weaknesses of the institutional church, and I share his concern that we are losing a large number of our younger people from the church. Would the model of emerging church be an answer?

9. Brian is articulate, intelligent, and well meaning. I have enjoyed his company. I believe we should listen to what he has to say. The least we can do is to offer him Christian hospitality which means that we listen to one another. However, we must critically reflect on what he says. We need to examine his propositions in the light of the Word of God. Finally, we need to come to our own conclusions, not depending on the conclusions of others.

This is not a criticism of Brian and should not be taken as such. These are some of my reflections and of a few other pastors and theologians I have spoken to. There are still a lot of questions and even more answers are needed. I value Brian as a friend. Hey, we had Yee Sang on Chap Goh May. I believe that he has an important message for us here in Asia. At the very least, I can tell my grandchildren (when I have them) that I once shared the stage with Brian McLaren.


Blessings

The Church Emergent in a Post-al Age

Brian McLaren
Lecture presented in Seminari Theology Malaysia (STM)
5 March 2007

The following are my notes:

Part One:

Brian shows a picture of a hurricane damaged Honduras. There was a bridge in the centre of the picture but on both sides of the bridge, the roads have been washed away. The river instead of flowing under the bridge is now flowing on the right bank of the bridge. Brian uses this to illustrate a unpredictable, rapid changing world.

Ideas in the world are always undergoing evolution and revolution.

1 Peter 3:15-16

But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander.

Always means be prepared to answer questions at all times. Questions asked in 1977 are different from questions in 2007. Often those at the grass root ministries have to give answers. The scholars tend to be slower with their answers.

Brian then shared a timeline

*Prehistoric world (2500 BC)- invention of writing changed the world. (A revolution.)
*Development of the ancient world (Sumerian, Egypt, etc)
*500AD, Roman Empire destroyed. Church came to power and replaced it. (A revolution.)
*Development of the medieval world.
*1500AD, development of the printing press. (A revolution.)
*Development of the modern world.

Marshall MacLuhan said that any new development entails loss of something old. Each revolution means we lose something old.

The splitting of the Eastern Orthodox Church means we lost the depth of prayer. The splitting from the Roman Catholic Church means we lose some of their tradition. The Reformation suffers from what they have lost from the Orthodox and Roman traditions.

We live in three worlds:

*Premodern/non modern
*Modern
*Postmodern

The themes of Postmodernity
We have to distinguish between genuine Christianity and our (individual and various culture-encoded) versions of it.
We need to see truth and goodness where they exist in postmodernism
We need to magnify the importance of faith
We ought to be more fair
We need to be more experiential
We need to address the postmoderns’ existential predicament.
We need to listen to the postmoderns’ stories
We need to tell our stories
We need to address issues we have never even thought about before
We need to avoid coercion and pressure
We need to see the postmoderns in here, out there, and everywhere
We must rely more than ever on art, music, literature, and drama to communicate our message
We must believe that the Holy Spirit is out there at work already
We must be seekers again
We must reassess the value of community and rekindle the experience of it
(The Church on the Other Side)

Part Two: Postal Theology

What is theology?

A systematic outline of truth, in the form of proposition, extracted from the biblical text through techniques to create a timeless biblical worldview.

Turning 1:

What is theology?

An ongoing creative enterprise of making models of the universe based on beliefs about God.

The theology of model making.

Emerging theologies aim to be…
1. coherent (hanging together, making sense when the many parts are integrated)
2. contextual (sensitive to its cultural and historical situation)
3. conversational (never attempting to be the last word and silence other voices, but rather inviting ongoing dialogue in the search for truth)
4. comprehensive (relating to all of life)
5. global (ending western hegemony)

Some examples are:

Euro-American theology- Truth vs Emotion (based on philosophy; Plato, Aristotle, Rome, Auschwitz)

Latin American theology- Justice vs Injustice (based on liberation theology; Adam Smith, Karl Marx)

African theology- Truth and reconciliation (reconciling theology; interacting with tribal anthologies and colonial past)

Asian theology- Pluralism vs Relativism (theology among diversity; interact with Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, and indigenous religions)

Also eco-theology, feminist theology, etc.

---------------------------------------

Personal note

This is what many of us who attended the Friends in Conversation: A Quite Revolution of Hope conference is looking for: for Brian to articulate and explain his theology and the rationale of his way of doing church. It is my hope that our Malaysian conversation will examine his theology of model making and his emerging theologies.

The Church Emergent in a Post-al Age

Brian McLaren
Lecture presented in Seminari Theology Malaysia (STM)
5 March 2007

The following are my notes:

Part One:

Brian shows a picture of a hurricane damaged Honduras. There was a bridge in the centre of the picture but on both sides of the bridge, the roads have been washed away. The river instead of flowing under the bridge is now flowing on the right bank of the bridge. Brian uses this to illustrate a unpredictable, rapid changing world.

Ideas in the world are always undergoing evolution and revolution.

1 Peter 3:15-16

But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander.

Always means be prepared to answer questions at all times. Questions asked in 1977 are different from questions in 2007. Often those at the grass root ministries have to give answers. The scholars tend to be slower with their answers.

Brian then shared a timeline

*Prehistoric world (2500 BC)- invention of writing changed the world. (A revolution.)
*Development of the ancient world (Sumerian, Egypt, etc)
*500AD, Roman Empire destroyed. Church came to power and replaced it. (A revolution.)
*Development of the medieval world.
*1500AD, development of the printing press. (A revolution.)
*Development of the modern world.

Marshall MacLuhan said that any new development entails loss of something old. Each revolution means we lose something old.

The splitting of the Eastern Orthodox Church means we lost the depth of prayer. The splitting from the Roman Catholic Church means we lose some of their tradition. The Reformation suffers from what they have lost from the Orthodox and Roman traditions.

We live in three worlds:

*Premodern/non modern
*Modern
*Postmodern

The themes of Postmodernity
We have to distinguish between genuine Christianity and our (individual and various culture-encoded) versions of it.
We need to see truth and goodness where they exist in postmodernism
We need to magnify the importance of faith
We ought to be more fair
We need to be more experiential
We need to address the postmoderns’ existential predicament.
We need to listen to the postmoderns’ stories
We need to tell our stories
We need to address issues we have never even thought about before
We need to avoid coercion and pressure
We need to see the postmoderns in here, out there, and everywhere
We must rely more than ever on art, music, literature, and drama to communicate our message
We must believe that the Holy Spirit is out there at work already
We must be seekers again
We must reassess the value of community and rekindle the experience of it
(The Church on the Other Side)

Part Two: Postal Theology

What is theology?

A systematic outline of truth, in the form of proposition, extracted from the biblical text through techniques to create a timeless biblical worldview.

Turning 1:

What is theology?

An ongoing creative enterprise of making models of the universe based on beliefs about God.

The theology of model making.

Emerging theologies aim to be…
1. coherent (hanging together, making sense when the many parts are integrated)
2. contextual (sensitive to its cultural and historical situation)
3. conversational (never attempting to be the last word and silence other voices, but rather inviting ongoing dialogue in the search for truth)
4. comprehensive (relating to all of life)
5. global (ending western hegemony)

Some examples are:

Euro-American theology- Truth vs Emotion (based on philosophy; Plato, Aristotle, Rome, Auschwitz)

Latin American theology- Justice vs Injustice (based on liberation theology; Adam Smith, Karl Marx)

African theology- Truth and reconciliation (reconciling theology; interacting with tribal anthologies and colonial past)

Asian theology- Pluralism vs Relativism (theology among diversity; interact with Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, and indigenous religions)

Also eco-theology, feminist theology, etc.

---------------------------------------

Personal note

This is what many of us who attended the Friends in Conversation: A Quite Revolution of Hope conference is looking for: for Brian to articulate and explain his theology and the rationale of his way of doing church. It is my hope that our Malaysian conversation will examine his theology of model making and his emerging theologies.

QROH: Session 4: World

Session 4 on world starts at 2pm on a Sunday afternoon. Brian says that he is sharing materials from a book he will be publishing soon. He also mentions that he has been thinking about this issue about the world and the church for many years. Unlike previous sessions, there are no stories but a straight forward presentation.

Brian started with the many organisations and projects which are working hard to identify the problems of the world today. There are about a list of about 11 problems/issues that needed to be addressed.

However, Brian presents his view of the problems facing the world as he sees it. In his conceptual, societal structure, prosperity is an important factor. Equity is the way wealth is created and thus equity is another factor. Unfortunately prosperity and equity makes the rich richer and the poor poorer. This makes the poor discontent. They then either migrate, turn to crime or revolt. Security for the rich becomes the next factor. Brian shows a diagram where prosperity, equity and security are circles which intersections. The centre area where all three circles overlap is what he calls “framing story”. Often the framing story is religion. Religion is often used by the rich and powerful to keep the poor underfoot. Religion is used to justify why the rich are rich and the poor should remain poor.

Therefore, the framing story is a metanarrative. A metanarrative is a story that erase all other stories and replace it with its own. Brian gives Caesar’s framing narrative:

Equality, prosperity and security come from a powerful leader (Caesar) who concentrates the means of violence and imposes peace through domination. The empire of Caesar is at hand.

Jesus confronts the system by reframing Caesar’s narrative:

Equality, prosperity and security come from a sacrificial people who embody reconciliation and bring peace through justice and love. The kingdom of God is at hand.

Later, Brian makes a comment about narrative.

Metanarrative as mentioned above wipes out other stories and replace them with its own.

Local narratives are your story, my story, their story etc. Unfortunately they are easily wiped out by the metanarrative.

Brian mentions a redemptive narrative which calls people to live with one another in peace and not wipe out others’ narrative.

In conclusion, Brian mentions four possible responses to “my neighbour (of another religion)”
(1) convert and assimilate
(2) persecute and marginalise
(3) ignore or isolate
(4) love and know…serve and protect.

The last response should be our response.

The facilitator is Tricia Yeoh and the conversation partners are Father Jojo Fung S.J., Dr. Hermen Shastri, and Steven Wong. The discussion started with Hermen informing us of his work with the World Council of Churches, the national CCM, interfaith committees and dialogue with the government. He ended his introductory remarks with a poem and shows us a metal cross made out of a bullet cashing. He says that the artist used to be a boy soldier in Liberia who becomes a Christian and now works as an ambassador of peace for the UN.

Steven mentions NECF’s work and Father Jojo explained the Roman Catholic Church involvement in Malaysia. Father Jojo also shares about his work with the Orang Asli and the Muruts in Sabah. He also raises two important points in reflection on Brian’s presentation; one is where does the smaller religions fit into the framing narrative, and how does the ancient civilisations, like Confucianism and Brahmanism affects the framing narrative. After this reflection, he concluded by considering a pig, a lowly creature allowing itself to be consumed. He sees himself as a pig to be consumed by others so that others may live a better life. Father Jojo quotes Gandhi, “We have to live simply that others may simply live.”

Then the discussion went onto to politics in Malaysia and what should Christians do about it. Here the conversation partners were divided. One suggests that politics should be left to the “experts” while another calls for more Christians to be involved in vigil, protest, etc.

This is the last session and it concludes by all participants standing in a circle, breaking bread and passing around a lighted candle.

Much has been said, much reflection needs to be done.

QROH: Session 4: World

Session 4 on world starts at 2pm on a Sunday afternoon. Brian says that he is sharing materials from a book he will be publishing soon. He also mentions that he has been thinking about this issue about the world and the church for many years. Unlike previous sessions, there are no stories but a straight forward presentation.

Brian started with the many organisations and projects which are working hard to identify the problems of the world today. There are about a list of about 11 problems/issues that needed to be addressed.

However, Brian presents his view of the problems facing the world as he sees it. In his conceptual, societal structure, prosperity is an important factor. Equity is the way wealth is created and thus equity is another factor. Unfortunately prosperity and equity makes the rich richer and the poor poorer. This makes the poor discontent. They then either migrate, turn to crime or revolt. Security for the rich becomes the next factor. Brian shows a diagram where prosperity, equity and security are circles which intersections. The centre area where all three circles overlap is what he calls “framing story”. Often the framing story is religion. Religion is often used by the rich and powerful to keep the poor underfoot. Religion is used to justify why the rich are rich and the poor should remain poor.

Therefore, the framing story is a metanarrative. A metanarrative is a story that erase all other stories and replace it with its own. Brian gives Caesar’s framing narrative:

Equality, prosperity and security come from a powerful leader (Caesar) who concentrates the means of violence and imposes peace through domination. The empire of Caesar is at hand.

Jesus confronts the system by reframing Caesar’s narrative:

Equality, prosperity and security come from a sacrificial people who embody reconciliation and bring peace through justice and love. The kingdom of God is at hand.

Later, Brian makes a comment about narrative.

Metanarrative as mentioned above wipes out other stories and replace them with its own.

Local narratives are your story, my story, their story etc. Unfortunately they are easily wiped out by the metanarrative.

Brian mentions a redemptive narrative which calls people to live with one another in peace and not wipe out others’ narrative.

In conclusion, Brian mentions four possible responses to “my neighbour (of another religion)”
(1) convert and assimilate
(2) persecute and marginalise
(3) ignore or isolate
(4) love and know…serve and protect.

The last response should be our response.

The facilitator is Tricia Yeoh and the conversation partners are Father Jojo Fung S.J., Dr. Hermen Shastri, and Steven Wong. The discussion started with Hermen informing us of his work with the World Council of Churches, the national CCM, interfaith committees and dialogue with the government. He ended his introductory remarks with a poem and shows us a metal cross made out of a bullet cashing. He says that the artist used to be a boy soldier in Liberia who becomes a Christian and now works as an ambassador of peace for the UN.

Steven mentions NECF’s work and Father Jojo explained the Roman Catholic Church involvement in Malaysia. Father Jojo also shares about his work with the Orang Asli and the Muruts in Sabah. He also raises two important points in reflection on Brian’s presentation; one is where does the smaller religions fit into the framing narrative, and how does the ancient civilisations, like Confucianism and Brahmanism affects the framing narrative. After this reflection, he concluded by considering a pig, a lowly creature allowing itself to be consumed. He sees himself as a pig to be consumed by others so that others may live a better life. Father Jojo quotes Gandhi, “We have to live simply that others may simply live.”

Then the discussion went onto to politics in Malaysia and what should Christians do about it. Here the conversation partners were divided. One suggests that politics should be left to the “experts” while another calls for more Christians to be involved in vigil, protest, etc.

This is the last session and it concludes by all participants standing in a circle, breaking bread and passing around a lighted candle.

Much has been said, much reflection needs to be done.

QROH: Session 3: Discipleship

Sorry. Would have posted last night but my internet access went kaput.

It has been a long day. This session starts at 8pm and it is heartening to note that the hall is still filled with people. Brian entitled his talk, “Spiritual Formation in Emerging Churches.”

Spiritual formation is defined by Brian as the development of people be, think, feel, work, relate, serve, play…in the way of Jesus. Brian made an emphasis on the play aspect. Living in the way of Jesus.

Brian then tells a story about making violin. BTW, Brian is an excellent story teller. Apparently great violin that produces the best music can only be made from certain wood. These are from trees that have survived a cold season at a certain time period. That is why master violin maker will visits houses built in that period and look for such wood in the attics. This will be the wood from these trees. A master violin maker will be able by touching, feeling and smelling the wood, to judge whether the wood will be suitable to make a violin. His apprentice will be following him and observing him for many years. One day, the master violin maker will turn to his apprentice and says, “You make the violin.” Spiritual formation is like that. We follow Jesus closely until one day we find that we are like Jesus. Like the violin maker’s apprentice, we “unconsciously pick up the art”. This is called “elbow knowledge”, that it has become instinctive. Brian mentioned that his understanding of spiritual formation as “elbow knowledge” is influenced by Michael Polanyi.

He also mentions that spiritual formation is the art of loving in Jesus. This is especially important in a community where must be constant exposure of modelling and exposure to loving in Jesus.

I am impressed by Brian’s stamina. After a 30 hours jetlag, he is still functioning coherently. At least I think he is. Either he is full of grace or he is zoned out. But the fact that he is coherent and still able to tell stories make me think that it is by grace.

Sivin is the facilitator and the conversation partners are Dr. Voon Choon Khing, Dr. Tan Soo Inn and yours truly. The range of conversation covers a large area of spiritual formation and discipleship. It started with an exploration of spiritual formation approaches in the modern context, postmodern, and Asian context. Confucius was included. Then one conversation partner shared about brokenness and formation and another shared about the “dark side” of the church.

This leads to an exploration of being in a church where one has been hurt. A written question about a person who has been hurt in or by a church wonders what he or she should do. The conversation partners were careful to point out that context is important and it is hard to give advice without knowing the context. However, they commented that the person should first talk with someone, talk to God, try to resolve the conflict, and only as the last resort leave the church. At this point, Brian mentions the value of confession in the church. It was an interesting session.

Father Jojo Fung, a Jesuit priest is invited to sum up the session. He gives an excellent summary with an interesting reflection, “I am because we are.”

QROH: Session 3: Discipleship

Sorry. Would have posted last night but my internet access went kaput.

It has been a long day. This session starts at 8pm and it is heartening to note that the hall is still filled with people. Brian entitled his talk, “Spiritual Formation in Emerging Churches.”

Spiritual formation is defined by Brian as the development of people be, think, feel, work, relate, serve, play…in the way of Jesus. Brian made an emphasis on the play aspect. Living in the way of Jesus.

Brian then tells a story about making violin. BTW, Brian is an excellent story teller. Apparently great violin that produces the best music can only be made from certain wood. These are from trees that have survived a cold season at a certain time period. That is why master violin maker will visits houses built in that period and look for such wood in the attics. This will be the wood from these trees. A master violin maker will be able by touching, feeling and smelling the wood, to judge whether the wood will be suitable to make a violin. His apprentice will be following him and observing him for many years. One day, the master violin maker will turn to his apprentice and says, “You make the violin.” Spiritual formation is like that. We follow Jesus closely until one day we find that we are like Jesus. Like the violin maker’s apprentice, we “unconsciously pick up the art”. This is called “elbow knowledge”, that it has become instinctive. Brian mentioned that his understanding of spiritual formation as “elbow knowledge” is influenced by Michael Polanyi.

He also mentions that spiritual formation is the art of loving in Jesus. This is especially important in a community where must be constant exposure of modelling and exposure to loving in Jesus.

I am impressed by Brian’s stamina. After a 30 hours jetlag, he is still functioning coherently. At least I think he is. Either he is full of grace or he is zoned out. But the fact that he is coherent and still able to tell stories make me think that it is by grace.

Sivin is the facilitator and the conversation partners are Dr. Voon Choon Khing, Dr. Tan Soo Inn and yours truly. The range of conversation covers a large area of spiritual formation and discipleship. It started with an exploration of spiritual formation approaches in the modern context, postmodern, and Asian context. Confucius was included. Then one conversation partner shared about brokenness and formation and another shared about the “dark side” of the church.

This leads to an exploration of being in a church where one has been hurt. A written question about a person who has been hurt in or by a church wonders what he or she should do. The conversation partners were careful to point out that context is important and it is hard to give advice without knowing the context. However, they commented that the person should first talk with someone, talk to God, try to resolve the conflict, and only as the last resort leave the church. At this point, Brian mentions the value of confession in the church. It was an interesting session.

Father Jojo Fung, a Jesuit priest is invited to sum up the session. He gives an excellent summary with an interesting reflection, “I am because we are.”

QROH: Session 2: Church

Session two starts at 2pm in the afternoon after lunch. Again Brian gives the plenary talk followed by the conversation partners and conversation participants. People are beginning understand that the whole conference is a great big conversation.

Brian talks about the emerging church. He starts by using Eddie Gibbs and Ryan Bolger's 9 points descriptors of emergent churches:
(1) Identifying with Jesus
(2) Transforming secular space
(3) Living as community
(4) Welcoming the stranger
(5) Serving with generosity
(6) Particpating as producers
(7) Creating as created beings
(8) Leading as a body
(9) Merging ancient and contemporary spiritualities.

He said that the main descriptor is number one and all the rest is built on it. He then goes onto to illustrate the emerging churches by three diagrams. The first is a box with four quardants and a red circle in the centre. The centre represent the emerging church and the four quardant represent evangelical, charismatic, social concern and liturgical. Brian said that people who are unhappy with thier tradition tend to try traditions in the other quadrant and end in the red circle in the middle.

The second illustration is of a tree trunk with concentric rings. The traditional churches are further in the trunk while the emerging churches represent the outermost ring.

The third illustration is of two circles. One represent the older paradigm while the other circle represents the church of tomorrow. He then put a link between the two and call it a transitional link. He also label it the emerging church. I am very mch taken by this third illustration that the emerging church is the transition to the church of tomorrow.

Then he went on to talk about deep ecclesiology.

The conversation partners for this session are Elder Chris Leong, Bishop Philip Lok and Rev. Wong Fong Yang. The partners did not engage directly on Brian's talk about the emerging church. Instead they shared on their own theology, perception and the way they do church. Bishop Lok shared about the Lutheran tradition. Pastor Wong shared about his past church experience and what type of church he wanted when he started his present church. Chris Leong shared on the novel way they are doing church. They also shared about evangelism in Malaysia.

There are a couple of questions from the conversation participants. One asked about syncretism. Brian shared a story about a Christian practicing Tai Chi but using the movements to represent Christian values.

After the second session, there was time for small group discussion.

QROH: Session 2: Church

Session two starts at 2pm in the afternoon after lunch. Again Brian gives the plenary talk followed by the conversation partners and conversation participants. People are beginning understand that the whole conference is a great big conversation.

Brian talks about the emerging church. He starts by using Eddie Gibbs and Ryan Bolger's 9 points descriptors of emergent churches:
(1) Identifying with Jesus
(2) Transforming secular space
(3) Living as community
(4) Welcoming the stranger
(5) Serving with generosity
(6) Particpating as producers
(7) Creating as created beings
(8) Leading as a body
(9) Merging ancient and contemporary spiritualities.

He said that the main descriptor is number one and all the rest is built on it. He then goes onto to illustrate the emerging churches by three diagrams. The first is a box with four quardants and a red circle in the centre. The centre represent the emerging church and the four quardant represent evangelical, charismatic, social concern and liturgical. Brian said that people who are unhappy with thier tradition tend to try traditions in the other quadrant and end in the red circle in the middle.

The second illustration is of a tree trunk with concentric rings. The traditional churches are further in the trunk while the emerging churches represent the outermost ring.

The third illustration is of two circles. One represent the older paradigm while the other circle represents the church of tomorrow. He then put a link between the two and call it a transitional link. He also label it the emerging church. I am very mch taken by this third illustration that the emerging church is the transition to the church of tomorrow.

Then he went on to talk about deep ecclesiology.

The conversation partners for this session are Elder Chris Leong, Bishop Philip Lok and Rev. Wong Fong Yang. The partners did not engage directly on Brian's talk about the emerging church. Instead they shared on their own theology, perception and the way they do church. Bishop Lok shared about the Lutheran tradition. Pastor Wong shared about his past church experience and what type of church he wanted when he started his present church. Chris Leong shared on the novel way they are doing church. They also shared about evangelism in Malaysia.

There are a couple of questions from the conversation participants. One asked about syncretism. Brian shared a story about a Christian practicing Tai Chi but using the movements to represent Christian values.

After the second session, there was time for small group discussion.

QROH: Session 1: Gospel

The long awaited conference, Friends in Conversation: A Quiet Revolution in Hope started today at Christian Life Gospel Centre, Petaling Jaya. The first session is on the Gospel (9.15am-12 noon).

Brian McLaren started the plenary session by sharing his thoughts about the different versions of the gospel. One version is "You can get saved and go to heaven and to hell with the rest." Another version is about the Kingdom of God coming to earth. He used his circle illustrations. One is of three separate circles; one for self, one for the world and one for church. That he says is one of the ways some people perceive doing church. The next illustration shows one large circle: the world, and two small circles inside the large circle: self and church. Brian has used these illustrations in the chapter on "Why I am Missional" in Generous Orthodoxy.

Brian then went on to explain the kingdom of God, based mainly on the gospel. In this talk, he drew on what he has written in his book, The Secret Message of Jesus. He concludes by illustrating that the way they proclaim Jesus as King is in the same format that the Romans proclaim Augustus Caesar as god.

After his presentation, the conversation partners, Sherman Kuek, Dr. Ng Kam Weng, and Elder Tan Kong Beng were invited to give their responses and views. Alwyn is a good faciliatator who kept the conversation going. Actually with Kam Weng and Kong Beng ( who is in his lecturer mode), he did not have any problem getting the conversation going! The emphasis is on the definition of the gospel and the kingdom of God. Kong Beng made a good point about compassion in sharing the gospel. Sherman raised a few eyebrows with his Eastern Orthodox view about theosis and continuing salvation.

The questions from the floor are good questions too. One person raised the statement that if the church is growing at 30% annually, why should they bother about anything else? This led to some responses about spiritual growth, gospel and more about kingdom of God.

This promises to be a good start for the conference. This posting is mainly about my immediate impressions. I shall post my reflections on this conference later. BTW they are videotaping the sessions who emergent Malaysia shall be selling for RM 20.00. Check their website for more information.

QROH: Session 1: Gospel

The long awaited conference, Friends in Conversation: A Quiet Revolution in Hope started today at Christian Life Gospel Centre, Petaling Jaya. The first session is on the Gospel (9.15am-12 noon).

Brian McLaren started the plenary session by sharing his thoughts about the different versions of the gospel. One version is "You can get saved and go to heaven and to hell with the rest." Another version is about the Kingdom of God coming to earth. He used his circle illustrations. One is of three separate circles; one for self, one for the world and one for church. That he says is one of the ways some people perceive doing church. The next illustration shows one large circle: the world, and two small circles inside the large circle: self and church. Brian has used these illustrations in the chapter on "Why I am Missional" in Generous Orthodoxy.

Brian then went on to explain the kingdom of God, based mainly on the gospel. In this talk, he drew on what he has written in his book, The Secret Message of Jesus. He concludes by illustrating that the way they proclaim Jesus as King is in the same format that the Romans proclaim Augustus Caesar as god.

After his presentation, the conversation partners, Sherman Kuek, Dr. Ng Kam Weng, and Elder Tan Kong Beng were invited to give their responses and views. Alwyn is a good faciliatator who kept the conversation going. Actually with Kam Weng and Kong Beng ( who is in his lecturer mode), he did not have any problem getting the conversation going! The emphasis is on the definition of the gospel and the kingdom of God. Kong Beng made a good point about compassion in sharing the gospel. Sherman raised a few eyebrows with his Eastern Orthodox view about theosis and continuing salvation.

The questions from the floor are good questions too. One person raised the statement that if the church is growing at 30% annually, why should they bother about anything else? This led to some responses about spiritual growth, gospel and more about kingdom of God.

This promises to be a good start for the conference. This posting is mainly about my immediate impressions. I shall post my reflections on this conference later. BTW they are videotaping the sessions who emergent Malaysia shall be selling for RM 20.00. Check their website for more information.

Friends in Conversation 2007

Friends in Conversation
A QUIET REVOLUTION OF HOPE

For the first time in Malaysia, influential speaker and author Brian McLaren and Conversation Partners touch on challenges and opportunities facing the 21st Century Church. Join the conversations on:

Gospel - more than we imagined it to be

Church - ways forward beyond forms and technique

Discipleship - tired of shortcuts and superficiality

World - being ready for active engagement

Date & Time: March 3-4 (Saturday & Sunday)
Venue: Christian Life Gospel Centre, Petaling Jaya
3rd Floor, Kompleks Kemajuan,
2, Jalan 19/1B, 46300 Petaling Jaya,
Selangor, Malaysia.

Cost: RM55 (Walk-in Registration RM65) - inclusive of handouts, tea and one lunch.

Organised by emergent Malaysia in collaboration with:

* Council of Churches Malaysia (CCM) Faith & Order Committee
* Initiative for Theological Reflection in Asia (IN.T.R.A)
* Seminari Theoloji Malaysia (STM)
* Glad Sounds Sdn Bhd

Conversation Partners:

* Father Dr. Jojo Fung S.J (Coordinator, IN.T.R.A )
* Sherman YL Kuek, OSL (DTh Candidate, Adjunct Lecturer in Christian Theology at STM)
* Chris Leong (Elder, Bandar Utama Chapel)
* Dr. Ng Kam Weng (Director, Kairos Research Centre)
* The Rt. Rev. Philip Lok (Bishop, Lutheran Church in Malaysia & Singapore)
* Rev. Dr. Hermen Shastri (General Secretary of Council of Churches Malaysia)
* Dr. Tan Soo-Inn (Author, Speaker, Grace@Work)
* Dr. Alex Tang (Director, Spiritual Formation Institute)
* Tan Kong Beng (Elder, Subang Jaya Gospel Centre, Co-founding Director of Oriental Hearts & Minds Study Institute)
* Steven Wong (NECF Research Commission Chairman)
* Rev. Wong Fong Yang (Pastor of City Discipleship Presbyterian Church)
* Dr. Voon Choon Khing (Lecturer in Christian Spirituality & Pastoral Counseling at STM)

Conversation Facilitators
Rev. Sivin Kit (Pastor, Bangsar Lutheran Church & Coordinator of emergent Malaysia)
Pastor Raj Singh (Pastor, Christian Life Gospel Centre & Director, Soul Survivor Malaysia)
Alwyn Lau (Researcher & Teacher at Fairview International School)
Tricia Yeoh (Senior Research Analyst, Centre of Public Policy Studies)

About emergent Malaysia
emergent Malaysia is a group of friends and followers of Jesus who are committed to one another and to creating space for conversations in Malaysia and beyond. We regularly meet to converse on topics regarding gospel, theology, church, discipleship, and engagement with our world.

Friends in Conversation 2007

Friends in Conversation
A QUIET REVOLUTION OF HOPE

For the first time in Malaysia, influential speaker and author Brian McLaren and Conversation Partners touch on challenges and opportunities facing the 21st Century Church. Join the conversations on:

Gospel - more than we imagined it to be

Church - ways forward beyond forms and technique

Discipleship - tired of shortcuts and superficiality

World - being ready for active engagement

Date & Time: March 3-4 (Saturday & Sunday)
Venue: Christian Life Gospel Centre, Petaling Jaya
3rd Floor, Kompleks Kemajuan,
2, Jalan 19/1B, 46300 Petaling Jaya,
Selangor, Malaysia.

Cost: RM55 (Walk-in Registration RM65) - inclusive of handouts, tea and one lunch.

Organised by emergent Malaysia in collaboration with:

* Council of Churches Malaysia (CCM) Faith & Order Committee
* Initiative for Theological Reflection in Asia (IN.T.R.A)
* Seminari Theoloji Malaysia (STM)
* Glad Sounds Sdn Bhd

Conversation Partners:

* Father Dr. Jojo Fung S.J (Coordinator, IN.T.R.A )
* Sherman YL Kuek, OSL (DTh Candidate, Adjunct Lecturer in Christian Theology at STM)
* Chris Leong (Elder, Bandar Utama Chapel)
* Dr. Ng Kam Weng (Director, Kairos Research Centre)
* The Rt. Rev. Philip Lok (Bishop, Lutheran Church in Malaysia & Singapore)
* Rev. Dr. Hermen Shastri (General Secretary of Council of Churches Malaysia)
* Dr. Tan Soo-Inn (Author, Speaker, Grace@Work)
* Dr. Alex Tang (Director, Spiritual Formation Institute)
* Tan Kong Beng (Elder, Subang Jaya Gospel Centre, Co-founding Director of Oriental Hearts & Minds Study Institute)
* Steven Wong (NECF Research Commission Chairman)
* Rev. Wong Fong Yang (Pastor of City Discipleship Presbyterian Church)
* Dr. Voon Choon Khing (Lecturer in Christian Spirituality & Pastoral Counseling at STM)

Conversation Facilitators
Rev. Sivin Kit (Pastor, Bangsar Lutheran Church & Coordinator of emergent Malaysia)
Pastor Raj Singh (Pastor, Christian Life Gospel Centre & Director, Soul Survivor Malaysia)
Alwyn Lau (Researcher & Teacher at Fairview International School)
Tricia Yeoh (Senior Research Analyst, Centre of Public Policy Studies)

About emergent Malaysia
emergent Malaysia is a group of friends and followers of Jesus who are committed to one another and to creating space for conversations in Malaysia and beyond. We regularly meet to converse on topics regarding gospel, theology, church, discipleship, and engagement with our world.